Friday, May 10, 2013

Women of the Wall provoke a riot

32 comments :

  1. I know that the court has ruled that prayer is not provocation. But isn't singing Hatikva at the kotel the ultimate in provocation? Surely that is not included in the prayer service! But on the other hand, the police probably can't arrest someone for singing the national anthem.
    It is good to see so many Beis Yaakov girls awake at 6:00am. Let's hope they continue to daven, not only on Rosh Chodesh, but every morning, at that time.

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    1. Hatikva is sung on numerous occasions at the kotel on Military installations, national holidays, etc. Sorry to see Hatikva hijacked by these anti-torah Women is my opinion.

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  2. why are these haredi girls students pushing agaisnt male soldiers? Are they deriving any satisfaction from this?
    On a bus, they wish to be separate from men, now they are pushing them and being very close. These videos should be seen by their rabbis who sent them to get involved in such immoral behavior.

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  3. this does not look like a riot to me... so i went and investigated, and found an article that said that three MEN were arrested for disturbing peace... And that MEN threw garbage and that policmen were lightly wounded... by the women? I don't think so.


    http://www.jpost.com/National-News/Thousands-of-haredim-protest-Women-of-Wall-prayer-312747

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  4. One of the RZ Rabbis who supported this protest, R Z. Melamed, paskened previously that his followers will die first, before hearing Kol Isha In the army). Now this video reproduces the Kol Isha, yet the many male protestors (who are frum) are simply standing there and hearing it. Thus, the rabbis who sent them to confront and hear the women singing, have caused a massive aveirah to take place. This includes Haredi and RZ alike.

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    1. There were 15,000 women and girls protesting.They were the ones sent in to do it.I spoke to the young lady who organized this the day before her name is Ronit and her group is called Women FOR the Wall.Two days ago she told me she was worried that nobody would show up.Yesterday she received all the major haskamas from the top,Charedi,RZ and Sefardi.The newspapers show the sem girls and make it appear as if the thousands are with WOW.The Times of Israel is the best example.The entire major Israeli mainstream media has an obvious anti-dati bias.That is why I am not so quick to believe anything they write.

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    2. Flavor Lounge

      Ronit didn't do this. She didn't want the Sem and Ulpanah girls there. This was done by Rabbis who she didn't even speak with.

      As far as her haskamot, ask her to see them. They are all verbal to date, which means that they don't exist.

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    3. Not true!She even has clips of RZ men to prove that they were invited and came.Wrong again.The Haskamas are published in writing on her site.

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    4. She spoke to the Rav of the Kosel,Rabbi Rabinovich and the haskamos are from HaRav Ovadia Yosef SHLIT"A,Rav Shteinnman,SHLIT"A,Rabbi Nebezal,SHLIT"A.It was her idea.You can view everything in print on her site.

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    5. vכמות
      no comments
      הסכמת גדול הדור מרן הרב אהרן לייב שטיינמן שליט”א

      הרב פסח לרנר, סגן הנשיא הבכיר במועצה הלאומית של ישראל צעירה, נכנס אל מרן הרב אהרן לייב שטיינמן שליט”א וסיפר על יוזמת ‘נשים למען הכותל’. הרב שטיינמן השיב כי חשוב לעשות את זה, תוך הקפדה חמורה על כך יהיה חלילה כל אלימות.

      הסכמת מרן הרב חיים קנייבסקי שליט”א

      הרב פסח לרנר סיפר אל מרן הגאון הרב חיים קנייבסקי שליט”א על ארגון הנשים למען הכותל. ושאל אם מעשיהם הם טובים ורצויים, ומרן השיב “חשוב מאוד, זה דבר טוב”.

      הרה”ג הרב אהרון פלדמן

      הרב יעקב מנקין, מנהל פרויקט בראשית בבולטימור, מרילנד, ניגש אל מרן הרב הגאון הרב אהרון פלדמן שליט”א על יוזמת נשים למען הכותל. ואמר כי הפרויקט הוא טוב וחשוב מאוד, ומתיר לפרסם את תמיכתו.

      הראשון לציון הרב שלמה עמאר שליט”א

      הרב יצחק ברקוביץ שליט”א

      הרב שמואל אליהו שליט”א

      הרב זאב לף שליט”א

      הרב דב ליאור שליט”א


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      Nam

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    6. She has nothing in writing from Rav Shteinman or Rav Ovadia Yosef. They were the two who sent the Sems and the Uplanaot.

      She has no haskama from Rav Ovadia, and only a dubious "oral" haskama from Rav Steinman. The latter is worth less than nothing. You can ask Rav Natan Kamenetsky what an oral haskama is worth, it didn't save his book from being banned.

      Rav Rabinowitz, in all of the press, denies any connection with any part of the protest.

      She told me in my own living room when she was begging me to approach Gedolim that I have a kesher with that she did not want the sems and ulpanaot to come to the protest. That was on may 7th. The same day that this piece ran in in Kikar HaShabbat:
      http://www.kikarhashabat.co.il/article.php?id=116333&adm_view=7d6cf1223af621a5b3e904c8801b342c

      Now she can take credit for whatever she wants, but it is no different than spitting in the air and calling it rain.

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    7. So assuming you can read Hebrew, please point out where in Rav Shlomo Amar's letter he talks about women of the wall, women for the wall, or the need for counter protest?

      What he does say is that he is very happy that they are trying to gather women to pray for Israel, for unity and for the soldiers of the IDF as Israel's enemies increasingly threaten her, and that he is happy that this is going to happen on Rosh Chodesh because that is an auspicious time.

      I don't know what they said to him to get him to write a letter, but his letter does not reflect in any way shape or form the stated goals or actions of women for the wall.
      http://womenforthewall.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Rav_Amar.pdf

      Here is the link to another claimed "haskamah" please point out where Women for the wall, Pesach Lerner or Ronit Pesken are mentioned:
      http://womenforthewall.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/KriatKodesh.pdf

      The Rav Shmuel Eliyahu does not work. So I am guessing either he never gave it, or he retracted it.

      You have Rav Berkovitz:
      http://womenforthewall.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/R-Berkovits-Haskamah-for-WFTW.jpg

      Rav Leff, though he does qualify with, also assume this protest will be silent, refined and respectable as is befitting true Bnos Yisroel. As such I urge any women who can attend to do so and be Mikadesh Shem Shomayim So I am not sure that counts
      Birabem.http://womenforthewall.org/harav-zeff-leff-shlita/

      And Rav Lior
      http://womenforthewall.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/rav_lior.jpg

      So that is a total of three actual haskamot. No offense to any of the Rabbanim that are named, but I don't think anyone is going to mistake them for top shelf Gedolei HaDor.

      Like I said no actual backing anywhere.

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    8. Do you also mind explaining why Ronit Peskin has now come forward with the position that she has no problem with women weairing talitot and tefillin at the kotel, but rather women's prayer groups:


      Bahtya Minkin · Bruriah High School
      Ronit H Peskin So you're saying that you'd be OK with individual women wearing tallitot and tefillin at the Kotel, but not having a women's prayer group?
      Reply · Like · 2 hours ago

      Ronit H Peskin · Top Commenter
      yes. exactly.

      http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/one-nation-divided-by-a-common-religion/

      When then exactly is the point? I'm trying to understand. She claims to have organized a prayer group of some 15k women, but she is against women's prayer groups?!?!?!

      Maybe someone should publicize her opinion to all of the various Rabbanim and Gedolim that she has publicly stated that she has no problem with women wearing tallitot and tefillin at the kotel. It's just women's prayer groups that she is against.

      So I guess she will be returning that haskamah from Rav Shlomo Amar then.

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    9. Hopefully,I will get back to you on that one.

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    10. I saw a letter with the chasimos of all the people I mention in Eretz Yisroel.It had the signature and under it the printed name.It doesn't matter to Ronit if she gets credit because the One who knows knows all things and that is good enough for her.She is not looking for Kavod or credit or even money .I only mention it because I was inspired by her actions.

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    11. It doesn't matter to Ronit if she gets credit because the One who knows knows all things and that is good enough for her.She is not looking for Kavod or credit or even money
      That is very much not the truth, as is demonstrated by her ever changing stories about how she did this single handedly. She very much wants the credit and the honor. She was most upset with the Haaretz reporter, who being quite in the know as to what is going on, said to her(in Ronit's own words):

      “You initiated it? No! The Chareidi rabbis did!” I told her that I and my group approached the Chareidi rabbis in the past few weeks and that is why specifically they called out for everyone to come out today, and she looks me in my face and says “Yea right. You are completely delusional and out of your mind.”
      http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/massive-prayer-rally-at-the-kotel-today-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/

      Now she believes(still in a state of delusion) that she is going to be able to convince these Gedolim to have any men who show up to protest next month expelled from Kollel...

      She is unclear as to precisely what she is trying to accomplish. She was against women wearing Talit and Tefillin at the Kotel, and now she is for it. The only constant is that she wants the credit.

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    12. The bottom line is that there were up to 15,000 Jewish women at the Kotel standing up for Yiddishkeit.Why you would seek to impune somebody who operates on three hours sleep (all the while taking care of her kids) on a non-existant budget and is the only person I have read about to take on Anat Hoffman is beyond me.Why would you think her document is a mezuaff or that oyur Gedolim would not want ladies saying tehillim and being a good example is also beyond me.Maybe you like reform Judaism?

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    13. Also you might be very surprised that she doesn't want to be a leader and was pushed by people to take action because it is worth more coming from a woman.Our enemies can't keep saying men are keeping them down.Men are forcing them to have children and be frum.She gets up and writes that this is untrue and says it is her choice in her columns in thge Times of Israel.

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    14. The bottom line is that there were up to 15,000 Jewish women at the Kotel standing up for Yiddishkeit.
      Yes, for which Ronit has wrongly sought to take full credit for. The truth is that even that Thursday she thought she would have make a couple hundred women. The Gedolim had a pre-set plan that she wasn't a part of, but now wants to take credit for. That is sad.
      Why you would seek to impune somebody who operates on three hours sleep (all the while taking care of her kids)
      Something that is a choice of her own, and that is all I am going to say about that publicly on the internet...
      on a non-existant budget
      Either you are her, her PR person, or you need to stop believing everything you read on the internet.
      and is the only person I have read about to take on Anat Hoffman is beyond me.
      First she is not the first one, and is not the only one. However what her actions are doing is feeding Anat Hoffman's media machine. If 15k people turn out to fight against WoW, that is only to their benefit in the media, and for their purposes.
      They have been doing this for 25yrs. Four years ago WoW was nearly a dead organization. Then someone decided that it would be a good idea to start arresting them, and that breathed new life into their organization.
      Why would you think her document is a mezuaff or that oyur Gedolim would not want ladies saying tehillim and being a good example is also beyond me.Maybe you like reform Judaism?
      No. My problem is with glory hounds that take credit where it is not deserved, and who spread untruths. She apparently has no problem with reform Judaism, as she has publicly stated that she is fine with women wearing tallit and tefillin at the kotel. At least when such statements serve to bolster her arguments. Her lack of honesty is appalling and it will only hurt her cause, and more importantly the cause of those who want to keep the kotel a holy place.
      Also you might be very surprised that she doesn't want to be a leader and was pushed by people to take action
      That is simply not true. That is not the story that she has told(at least initially) online, and that is not the case in real life.
      because it is worth more coming from a woman.Our enemies can't keep saying men are keeping them down.
      And if what you said above was true, it totally undermines the rest of your statement. It is no different than the North Vietnamese having POWs say under threat of torture that they were not being tortured. If she was unwillingly pushed into leadership by others(presumably men) because the message would sound better coming from a woman... Well then she is nothing more than a puppet, and the message is an utter lie.
      Please try again, with less propaganda and with arguments that make better internal sense.

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  5. and a few thousand hareidi girls who show up at the same time are not meant to be provocational ?

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    1. You are not at the Kotel much are you? Last year every Rosh Chodesh the sems came to the Kotel to pray for rain.

      Is that provocational? The only difference is that they scheduled their arrival a few hours earlier.

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  6. Despite their protests to the contrary, Chareidim are often very good at manipulating the real world to their benefit.
    Given the choice between 200 annoyed women and 20000 angry Chareidim who will the police remove from the situation every time?

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  7. Recipients and PublicityMay 11, 2013 at 1:34 AM

    The so-called cranky "women of the wall" look like a pathetic bunch of post-menopausal losers, while the pretty Charedi girls being held back by the police look they are part of the vibrant youthful Charedi population explosion that is driving much of the current Chiloni-Charedi friction in Israel.

    The Chilonim will be lucky if, down the line, the Charedim even let them reside in the inevitable JEWISH state based on Torah law that must ensue within two or three more generations! That is why Charedim must prepare now for their own independence and not wait around for the largesse from the financially strained Israeli treasury that is now pleading "poverty" under Lapid.

    The writing is on the wall, (good pun)!

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  8. To me it seems the route of the problem is unemployment, and lack of action in real life.
    On both sides people came to get entertainment, those who don't daven their daily, or had no reason to be there just then, could have chosen a better time to attend.
    My fear is that when people have nothing to do, & start fighting each other, this is what caused the churban. If those women were ignored, & those who donated the Sifrei Torah will take them back, if they are used for women to read in,causing those women to have to buy their own Sefer torah. My guess is this would have been disolved. They don't believe in G-d nor Rosh Chodesh, they just want fun, & attention, which they are getting.
    Hopefuly Hakodosh Boruch won't look down & say if this is what you do at my Kotel, & this is why you come, maybe I should give it to the Arabs, let us see then how those women will pary there then.
    Let us face it, ask those kids who were there why they chose to come today, many will reply because it is sefira & there were no chasunos & no action,when we were younger we would have done the same.

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  9. If these WoW were just ignored by the Chareidim, they wouldn't get the media and attention they crave, their numbers would dwindle and they eventually would go to Robinson's Arch or stop coming altogether . .

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    1. So you should just permit them to be mevazeh this holy site?Not according to Rav Shteinmann,Harav Ovadia and Rabbi Nebenzal.

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  10. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pKjn-BvBgns#!

    why didn't you post this video. It shows much better who is actually rioting and who behaves in a dignified way...

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    1. It was a rally for women.They behaved well!

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    2. Looks like police brutality to me. Fascists do celebrate that sort of thing though and blame the protestors for provoking police wrath.

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  11. Gedolim Endorse-
    Thursday May 9, 2013 9:51 AM - One Comment
    The provocation and danger posed by the “Women of the Wall,” that group which descends upon the Western Wall each Rosh Chodesh with Talleisim, Tefillin and Sifrei Torah, led by Anat Hoffman, formerly of Meretz and now one of the heads of the Reform movement in Israel, has reached unprecedented levels. Not only could changes be made to the Holy Site at the Kotel, but Hoffman intends to leverage this issue to make far-reaching changes to the definition of Judaism in the Holy Land.

    A new group of women, Women for the Wall, as reported previously on Matzav.com, call upon all women who value the Temple as a sacred site, and Jewish tradition as has been our practice for thousands of years, to come to the Kotel at 6:30 am on Rosh Chodesh, to daven and say Tehillim for Klal Yisrael and the great dangers to Torah and Judaism posed by these groups. In so doing, these Bnos Yisrael will arrive before the Women of the Wall, and show the Israeli government and world media that the vast majority of women who wish to pray at the Kotel oppose any changes.

    Rabbi Pesach Lerner, Executive Vice President Emeritus of the National Council of Young Israel, approached HRH”G Rav Aharon Leib Shteinman shlit”a and HRH”G Rav Chaim Kanievsky shlit”a about this new initiative. Both Gedolim responded that it is important to do this; Rav Shteinman added that this is on the strict condition that there be no violence, ch”v.

    Though launched only a few weeks ago, the Women for the Wall have already received the endorsements of other leading Rabbonim representing a wide swath of the Chareidi and Dati Leumi communities, including HRH”G Rav Aharon Feldman shlit”a of the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah of Agudath Israel of America, and the Rishon LeTzion HRH”G Rav Shlomo Amar, shlit”a. Rav Yitzchak Berkovits, Rav Shmuel Eliyahu, Rav Zev Leff and Rav Dov Lior are among other Rabbonim shlit”a endorsing the project.

    “We only want to pray with sincerity and quiet,” said Ronit Peskin, Director of Women for the Wall. “Women should pray and demonstrate by example, not respond to their shouting and provocative behavior.” She emphasized that each woman must come intending to create a Kiddush HaShem in every aspect of her behavior and Tefillah.

    {Matzav.com Israel}

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    1. You are just quoting another blog, that offers no actual proof of what it is saying. That means nothing. Show actual haskamot.

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  12. Pretty! This has been an incredibly wonderful
    post. Thank you for supplying this information.

    ReplyDelete

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